communication. the clerk: the honorable, the speaker, house of representatives, sir, on june 11, 2025, pursuant to section 3307 of title 40 united statescode, the committee on transportation and infrastructure met in open session with a quorum present to consider 30 resolutions including in the general services administration capital leasing programs. i have enclosed copies of the resolution from the committee of transportation and infrastructure on june 11, 2025. signed sincerely, sam graves, chairman. the speaker pro tempore: this will be referred to the committee on appropriations. pursuant to clause 12-a

>> china accounted for 2/3 of the $2 trillion for clean energy innovation. >> it doesn't surprise me. mr. min: mr. chair, do you on think it is fair to see that china sees it for future

growth? >> 63% of like that comes from coal. mr. min: i think it is clear that china sees renewable energy as growth industries tore the tut tour. reclaiming my time. and we are in competition with china as to who will lead the way. and as leading experts on national security, economics and energy describe the battle as critical what the united states or china will dominate the 21st century. the united states and china are in a contest for leadership of industries in the future with respect to clean energy. while china is investing in renewables the united states is poised to send up the white flag for surrender. the bill that was passed would eviscerate the incentives and part of the 2022 redeficit reduction inflation act. this would be unilateral

disarmahment and china would be poised to dominate the economy without even firing a shot. do you think it is consistent with national energy dominance to surrender the clean energy market to china. >> disagree the premise. mr. min: do you support eliminating the tax credits under the -- >> i support the ending of that. mr. min: when we talk about subsidizing industries, something i know a little bit, do you think we should be subsidizing industries like horse farms, wood burning stoves, yes or no. wood burning stoves, horse farms. would you agree as a general rule we should be looking to foster innovation and future tech tholings and not technologies of the past, yes or

no? >> innovation has been the source of american greatness. mr. min: i agree with that. i represent a district that has a lot of innovation. you and the trump administration are subsidizing oil and gas while surrendering clean energy markets to china. it's investing in past technology. we can invest in wood burning, coal and oil. but these are technologies of the past. i though you subsidy with that premise. china sees clean energy as being the markets of the future, europe sees that, most national security experts and energy experts agree with that. with that, i'll switch over to a different topic that was addressed by some of my colleagues, but i represent a district that is vulnerable to wildfires. when i talk to my federal employees, national park service or u.s. forest service, they told me they don't have enough

personnel. are you aware of how many employees that are tasked and licensed and trained to address wildfires have been let go during your time in the interior? >> if anyone is gone they took early retirement. no firings. mr. min: dune how many employees when you started and how many we have today? >> i'm happy to provide that information to you. mr. min: i ask unanimous consent toe submit three articles. rl back of inflation reduction act and second is called job creation estimates through proposed reduction act and clean investment monitor. >> without objection. so ordered. >> i ask unanimous consent to enter this recent.

92.5% of all power capacity on grids worldwide came from renewable energy sources. >> the chair recognizes expwrasm georgia, mr. collins, for five minutes. mr. collins: i appreciate your service to our country. i want to take you on a journey and then i have a quick question for you. i grew up in rural georgia and grew up under a log truck. my parents hauled logs for a link and i was in the woods for a long time and i have seen what devastation has happened especially in the national forests with cutting off of the timber sales or not selling sizeable enough timer was that you can make money to go in and cut it. i cut a tree on my property from

the beetles that have infested our national forest and not to mention the fact the fire hazard when we don't maintain and manage our forests. and i have only been up here for two years. this is my second term and i sat on this committee during the 118th congress. i went to minnesota and i saw people that they set the standard for mining. they have been fighting for 20 years to get a permit to mine. i have been offshore of the gulf of america. i have seen -- and they are going to move those rigs. we had witnesses that said we have not issued offshore leases and if biden gets re-elected we are not going to issue anymore. i visited with an lng company

trying to export. couldn't get a permit. indian affairs, witnesses right there talking about how bad the buildings were and we are trying to educate indian children in them. weren't fit for occupancy. they know how to mine. the land we pushed them on. they can't get a permit to do that. and the funny thing, i had a quick meeting and i swear this comes up more because i serve as the chairman on the subcommittee for water resources. u.s. fish and wildlife, now this town has been waiting for a boat ramp permit for five years. one permit is all they need from the u.s. fish and wildlife. sir, you took on a job and you

got a heck of a task in front of you. that's not what i wanted to focus on. 20 minutes from my house is a plant, coal fired, like that burning, unlike my colleague who just spoke i happen to think america is the best country and we ought to be first. and i want to talk to you about the big beautiful coal, clean coal industry, especially because in my district, ai is huge and we need the like that. it's coming and we want to make sure we are prepared for it. can you explain the importance of the coal industry that we get domestically and can you help explain how to cut this needless red tape that has been affecting the domestic coal industry for

years? >> beautiful clean american coal provides a component to our base load and concentrated effort going in past administrations to shut down that industry. when you shut down that industry multiple things happened. you destabilize the grid because we don't have base load to accommodate all the subsidies. tay creates instability in the grid and puts the country at risk. there is thermal coal which we burn for like that and metal luring call. we know we need to have things for our military, ship building, steel, reshoring, manufacturing, you can't build steel from coke and that comes from metalump rgi krmp al coal. and we have allowed china to have a strangle hold on critical minerals. in the coal we have in this

country, whether in your state or out west, in that coal there are massive amounts of critical minerals you did extract to create like that. so it's a triple win for the u.s. and again, if people are concerned about emissions, there is a coal plant running in this country, it's among the cleanest in the world. they have taken care of the emissions in north dakota. and china built 94 gigawatts of coal and a bunch of hydro. they are not just doing renewables but all of the above energy, including coal. 94 gigawatts. they built coal and like that last year and not the clean plants, but they know they need like that to do it. mr. collins: that plant i was talking to you about, they have four units and only got did

three running. they shuttered the fourth one down and cheapest form of like that they were headaching. >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> i want to give the gentleman from georgia to equal tie or apologize but he mischaracterized the state of mind saying china is the greatest country rather than the united states. that is over the line and i don't want to take down words but give the gentleman a chance which was impugning of character and improper characterization about another member's state of mind. if he doesn't want to do that, i would ask that his words be taken down. i'm going to give the gentleman the opportunity. >> i was making a statement, i

wasn't -- >> you said what he thinks. that is not ok. >> ok. >> withdraw. >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, it's good to see you here. thank you for testifying before this committee today. i know it's favorite and best experience. i have many concerns regarding the administration's proposed budget, to be really honest. and that's what i want to discuss today. as a representative from the state of michigan, the great lakes is part of my priorities and i co-chair the great lakes task force and your agency protects their well-being 20% of

the fresh water in the world. the united states geological ecosystem mission area which is an agency played a major role in supporting the great lakes region environmental research and provides science and data to inform conservation, management efforts across the entire region. my district is home to the u smp gmp s center where work supports great lakes fisheries and provides recreational, economic and cult tall benefits to americans. the great lakes remain vulnerable to invasive species. scientists are at the forefront from protecting from invasive to cutting research and development and technology. they are both environmentally

effective and economically responsible. we have to keep supporting this program and i am deeply concerned about the devastating budget cuts that we have seen. first i would like to ask you, have you and your staff reviewed how you eliminated funds for the usgs mission area which will impact $1.5 billion fishing industry. >> in the short time, we have tried to dig in and as i shared earlier there are a lot of rams that have a lot of merit that fell under the action that tried to fit under the budget guidelines we were given and something we will continue to review. great lakes are of utmost importance in the clean water

resources. >> i'm begging you, dig into it. mr. secretary, stakeholders say these cuts will close facilities extremely important to the great lakes. how do you expect the control program to move forward in the face of these cuts, how do we make sure we don't see them coming back? >> i'm going to ask our team to make sure we do -- mrs. dingell: make sure you do that. mr. secretary, doge listed the lake ontario for cancellation, even though its current location is best suited for its mission. it is a specialized laboratory and provides research vessels. have you or your staff -- i need

you to look into this cancellation and have you put -- have you done anything to remove it from the doge listing? can you work with me and get a commitment that when we build this given the importance of the station? >> as we look through opportunities to save money on real estate, we are going to go through that whole list that was a suggested list, but when we have something like a laboratory where people come to work and do work and more likely to survive. mrs. dingell: and it was strategically located. will you please work with us? i only have 38 seconds and more questions for the record. but we care about the national wildlife refuge system.

i welcome the fact that in your written system you want to expand public ac cyst to 870,000 acres of refuge but yet there are cuts to deferred maintenance and staffing. so i'm going to ask you some questions about that as well. wildlife refuge was important to somebody that you had met and i know. with that, i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan, the chair of the education and work force committee, mr. walberg. mr. walberg: i appreciate the wildlife refuge as well and use it. you had my time. that's my last comment. mr. secretary, good to see you.

last time i saw you was in jackson, michigan. but i'm delighted you are involved in key issues. i have both the southern portion of lake michigan and most of lake er inch e in my district, lots of fresh water. so it's very important to me. we need to keep a healthy fish erie, tourism industry that goes on worth about 1.5 billion in economic benefit and good stuardship. the first issue i want to discuss with you is importance of keeping invasive carp out of the great lakes. asian carp was found 47 miles away from lake michigan and if they were to spread in the lakes it would be devastating to

fishing and recreational experience because it can cause injuries to bothers, to skiers and fishes in the lake. president trump signed a memorandum to prevent the migration of invasive carp into the great lakes and i applaud the president for his swift action. it tasks the fish and wildlife service to management for prevention, removal of carp and other invasive species in great lakes. do i have your commitment that u.s. fish and wildlife service will work to carry out the president's directive. >> absolutely, sir. >> music to my years. and i fully expected that, so thank you. i hear from andlers about the imbalance that is impact the fish erie -- and i hope that

name will resonate, protecting migratory bird that is increasing and populations are robust and healthy and negatively stocking and natural reproduction of the species that economies depend on. i will be fishing for walleye in lake erie and it is robust. perch also in lake erie is great. but the tonage of fish that they are taking without the ability to control their population. canada does, they shoot them across the line from the united states. but we are prohibited from dealing with the comerantz and

being good stewards of that population, not only affects great lakes but steelhead and salmon in the columbia river basin. while there has been progress there is no solution for rocketing and they are protected. any solution must involve the u.s. fish and wildlife service. mr. secretary, can i get your commitment to work with state fish and wildlife agencies and if they find any problems with michigan state wildlife entities, i would like to know about that to develop a solution on preswiming fish including lakes, ponds and rivers. >> yes, absolutely. >> i would like to extend an invitation for you to visit michigan's 5th district which touches -- 6th now. it all changes, see firsthand

the challenges and opportunities that we are facing and our staff would be delighted to work that out with your staff. >> thank you for the invitation. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes mr. hernandez. mr. hern: puerto rico's representative puerto rico relationship with the united states. u.s. must follow through on its commitments and obligations and the commitments are grounded in law and mutual consent or in treaty obligations like they are in the freely associated states. the department of interior manages the federal government's relationship with the free associated states and four u.s. territories. it does not exercise it over the commonwealth of puerto rico. as we review the department's

budget and allocations to the territories and i am interested of what this tells us how the federal government sees its responsibilities. my first question would be, from the department standpoint, are the freely associated states sovereign and independent nations? >> yes. that's why they are called freely associated states. but we have a strong relationship and commitments to work with them. >> citizens born in the freely united states are not u.s. citizens. would the department extend birthright citizenship to the people of the freely associated states as it currently exists in puerto rico. >> it would be on a case by case basis and couldn't make a broad general lization but we are interested in building a strong

relationship. >> you wouldn't reject the possibility that a freely associated state could have birthright citizenship. >> i wouldn't reject that personally but i can't speak on before of the entire administration. >> something you have discussed in the agreement? >> i have not had that with respect to greenland. >> any jurisdictions of acquisition of greenland and under the department of interior. >> the discussions occurred in public about greenland have suggested that one framework if greenland were to choose to be part of the united states that the obvious step for them to become a territory at some point would be to start as a freely associated state. and so that is an existing framework that has been mentioned but i have not been a part of any high level

discussions of implementation of that idea. >> switching to the four territories under the department's. the organic acts governing the relationship between the u.s. and these territories have not been revised in decades. would the department update these organic acts? >> if there is an opportunity to learn from experience and i think dialogue about how to improve relationships would be beneficial. these territories and the freely associated states all represent an opportunity to help increase national security particularly those partners that in the pacific where we had american soldiers and sailors fought and died as part of that and now we are in a position of some cases it feels like we gotten crochement from china around those territories and freely

associated states and i think it's important that this administration pay more attention to these relationships. >> could future relations of those organic acts would you value the mutual consent of the territories and congress in developing these organic acts? >> absolutely. >> beyond national security concerns, would you be open to exploring the possible bill of expanding their self-government to the largest extent possible within the u.s. framework? >> that would be part of the dialogue. as i was as governor, i never agreed to a bill that i hadn't read. so hypothetically, i think it's great to have that conversation. >> i think it's good to have this conversation because we spoke about autonomy and focus on function. and make these territories as

functioning as possible under u.s. jurisdiction which is their will which i think it is. i would like to quickly state d.o.i. has supported climate change in puerto rico and other areas in the funding provided by the i.r.a. but that funding has been indefinitely paused and i hope you can ensure that puerto rico and other areas are prepared for the next disasters. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. mcclintock for five minutes. mr.mcclintock: i want to thank you for your responsiveness to my communitys' concerns about the situation at yosemite, relaxing the reservation system is a good first step. we need to restore full public access to public lands. as you know, yosemite was set

aside for quote, public use, resort and recreation. but over the past several decades that attitude has changed of what can be disbiebd as look but don't touch. the attitude of the last two superintendents was dismiss i have and i would say contemptuous. now that we have a vac cansy in the superintendent's office and the director's office and a new administration, i think we have a priceless opportunity to restore the original vision for the park and park system. yosemite continues to have half the rooms, half the camp sites and half the parking spaces as it had prior to the 1997 flood. money was appropriated to restore these facilities but never were. the merced river plan was used as an excuse to remove additional aments.

overcrowding can be resolved by restrictions on access or by expanding capacity and expediting guest processing at the gates and encouraging visitation beyond the valley, which is the preference of the gateway communities and dare i say of all the visitors. my first visit with the management 14 years ago, is it the right thing for the park, that's the wrong question. the right question is is it right thing for the park's visitors. and that is the central central problem. and i would like to see a new n.p.s. director and yosemite superintendent that are not wedded to the bureaucracy but have hospitality and take the side of visitors.

i want your thoughts on the record and put it plantly, whose side are you on? >> i appreciate the opportunity to speak earlier and appreciate your comments you just made. one take-away, when i'm visiting a national park i requested at each park i request a separate visit with gateway community leaders to understand their perspective how the park service is operating as a neighbor and work collaboratively and help the business opportunities there and how decisions we might make, reservation systems would have impacts on that. >> my gateway community said that is a breath of fresh air. >> i look forward tore visiting yosemite and the gateway communities there. mr.mcclintock: with respect to the attitude of the park service, i oriented that to

hospitality as the principal function. what can we do in that regard? >> lots of things we can do but we can still do the things to do to create a positive visitor experience and one of the things we are looking closely at, we are way undercharging as a nation for international visitors. we have done a study what it charges if you were going to see the ghor i will asin rwanda, it's $500 or higher -- mr.mcclintock: i don't want to discourage international visitors from visiting our parks but that their capacity can accommodate those who want to come and the park staff is oriented towards the visitor experience first and foremost. >> could be a billion dollar

opportunity without discouraging and international visitors who are coming here as a tour yosemite are one of the places and we are charging them less than the american family and if the revenue could be redirected back to deferred maintenance, staffing, a number of things we could do bob fantastic. mr.mcclintock: contracting out a lot of the services and doing it more efficiently, that is critically important. and i look at the brew ha ha and 10 probationary positions out of 500 and increasing the summertime staff by 30 part-time staff. they said we are getting rid of the lock smith. they have a management department and there is a lock smith within 20 minutes of the gate ways of the national park.

why don't you get a local janitorial service and do a better job at lower costs. >> thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the chair recognizes the gentlelady from new york, ms. velazquez. ms. velazquez: thank you for joining us today, mr. secretary. i want to toke cuss on renewable energy, the fastest growing sector in our energy economy and solution for cleaner more reliable power that doesn't poison our air. that's why it is alarming the fiscal year budget 2026 completely budgets out renewable energy programs at the department of bureau of land management.

b.l.m. renewable program is the office responsible for permitting solar and wind projects. no funding means no investment in a cleaner environment. and the justification, the budget calls it a green new scam and that these technologies are too unreliable that green and solar are the fastest growing sources. so my question to you is offshore wind considered a legitimate part of the american energy dominance agenda? >> it is not. ms. velazquez: so is it being left behind in favor of fossil fuel? >> it's not about any particular source, it's about the fact --

and talked about affordable, offshore wind is the most expensive of any of the sources. ms. velazquez: there is. [indiscernible] undermine ongoing projects which i can talk about further. moving on to next question. you should be able to talk about all forms of energy. can you provide an example of offshore project and tell us about its impact in numbers -- >> the issue with offshore wind or onshore wind that when the wind isn't blowing we need all the base load.

so any estimate that says wind is cheaper would only be true -- ms. velazquez: reclaiming my time. i asked you about any specific project that you are aware. but you are not mentioning any. and why offshore wind works not in theory but in fact. new york's first offshore wind farm generates 172 megawatts of clean energy to 170,000 homes on on long island and created nearly a thousand jobs and new businesses and supporting training programs. my constituents are willing to pay $1 for clean like that, job benefits and protecting our climate because climate can change is an exy extensional threat to my.

while we are dealing with extreme weather, rising seas, hurricanes, your department issued a stop-work order on a fully permitted offshore wind project just off the coast of my home state. just this week, i heard from a local small business that lost a contract due to -- my constituents do not want more offshore oil and deepwater verizon style disaster, they want offshore winds and good union paying jobs that comes with it. it was part of my district for three decades and part of the marine terminal which will serve

as staging for offshore wind. the port will support 1,000 union construction jobs and 200 assembly jobs. i do not understand why we cannot have it all. >> the highest electric rates outside of hawaii are in new england and has to do with the policies and i think that energy freedom -- we are headed towards energy poverty. and you mentioned 70,000 homes getting like that, and they also need all the fossil fuels, all of the base load and all of everything else to power those homes when the wind is blowing. we need two systems. ms. velazquez: we have a an administration that doesn't. big companies will lose our

land. >> we do care about health. >> over two million people die in the world because they don't have like that and where there is like that humanity flourishes and health increases. the biggest health life spans is in the north slope of alaska after we were able to develop. it's incorrect to say we don't care about health. >> i ask unanimous consent to submit a study showing in 2024 china began construction of new coal-fired power plants. that's the highest level since 2015. without objection. so ordered. i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from april 20, 2024 from righters reuters saying china missed its air quality goal.

and to follow up with that, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article entitled air quality worsens despite china's new energy grid. despite gains in clean energy, it indicates a troubling trend 11-31 capital exceeded the national annual standard, 35 milligrams. and ozone concentrations exceeded national thresholds of the 160 micro grams per cubic meter with some cities topping 190 milligrams per cubic meter. i ask unanimous consent an article from question the guardian" and 78% in one decade.

this article says that china is a dominant driver. i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from m.i.t. news that china-based emissions are warming greenhouse gases spiked in the decade and ask unanimous consent to resubmit into the record a chart published by the e.p.a. showing emissions by country and that china is the largest emitter of greenhouse gases. and i ask unanimous consent to submit into the record an article by bbc news stating that china emits more greenhouse gases more than the world combined and 27%. i don't i don't care to emulate anything china's doing.

>> i'll see your unanimous consent request and raise three of mine own, if i could. i ask unanimous consent toent aer into the record an article from cnn saying president trump is forcing a coal plant to stay open even though doing so will cost american consumers between $10le in and $100 million with no benefit to grid reliability. mr. huffman: also a u.c. request to enter into the record this e.i.a. report demonstrating that coal is driving the climate crisis and an n.i.h. public health study showing that coal-fired power plants are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths over the past 20-plus years. and finally, this article from "the washington post" entitled, in coal country, trump's cuts to health programs put miners in danger. mr. westerman: i ask for a clarification on the n.i.h. report, on the coal plant. mr. huffman: n.i.h. public health study. mr. westerman: was that looking at the coal plants closed in the

u.s. or the ones that are being built? mr. huffman: it's a backward look over the last 20-plus years at what has been done to public health. mr. westerman: without mr. huffman: thank you. mr. westerman: so ordered. the chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi, mr. ezell. you're recognized for five minutes. mr. ezell: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, first i want to applaud you for the work that you've been doing since you've taken your position. the president has a bold vision to unleash american energy. protect our national security, promote access to vast natural resources, and, most importantly, put america first. and i appreciate the crucial role that you're playing at this time. a main source of income of our federal government comes from fees, interest and sales of united states natural resources and the land they sit on. as we saw under the biden administration not allowing access to these resources cost the federal government millions of dollars. under president trump's first administration, the bureau of land management conducted 104 leases, bringing in $1.77

billion in revenue. under the biden administration, only 32 lease sales were conducted, bringing in only $34r5 million of federal -- $345 million of federal revenue. today president trump's 2026 budget requests $14.4 billion in current authority for d.o.i. it's not hard to see which administration did it correctly. my district is home in mississippi on the gulf coast, natural heritage area. and they have not received any funding for fiscal year 2025, with no clear timeline of disbursement through the national park service. these funds can boast six coastal counties and 45 coastal communities. can you please provide us with an update when these funds will be released? sec. burgum: i'll ask my team to look into that specifically. this is part of an effort we made to make sure that the funds were in line with the

administrative priorities. we also were reviewing 36,000 contracts and grants, a record. a grant dollars went out. enormous amount of grant dollars went out between november 5 and january 20. we're reviewing each of those as well. thanks for flagging this one. we'll look at it and get back to you. >> thank you. you recently launched a first step toward creating the 11th five-year program for offshore leasing. mr. ezell: signaling a long-term vision for american energy. how does a robust leasing schedule support predictability for investment, high-paying jobs and our nation's goal of energy dominance? sec. burgum: i look to the companies that bid on these leases have to be willing to make a long-term commitment, as you know. and they have capital planning sessions, part of what we have to do is have a predictable, dependable cycle of when we're going to do lease sales so they can make a decision on how they want to deploy their capital. we want companies to deploy

their capital, developing energy resources here versus other places in the world. and the unpredictability or the illegally not even holding lease sales like in states like in wyoming, montana and north dakota where the biden administration was the first administration since harry truman to not hold the lawfully required quarterly lease sales, we need to get back on -- to get back doing this because the way we get capital flowing toward affordable, reliable energy is make sure that people can count on us as a partner to hold lease sales on a regular predictable basis. mr. ezell: thank you. i'm currently working on a bill text to codify president trump's executive order titled unleashing america's offshore critical minerals and resources, to expedite prospecting and leasing for ocean minerals. mr. secretary, why is it important for congress to pass into law and how does expediting deep sea mineral production help counter growing chinese and

russian sea bed activity in the pacific? sec. burgum: again, we mentioned here earlier that we've got -- we're in a precarious position with china having a strangle hold on critical minerals and of course the sea bed and with the new innovation, new technology is rich in some of these minerals and not just here near the lower 48. but around american samoa, one of our american territory, where we control those territorial waters, china is operating on three saids of american samoa -- sides of american samoa. we recently began the process to allow critical minerals work to occur around american samoa so these are part of american territory. we have to make sure that we're controlling these minerals and not china. mr. ezell: you directed barack obama to move forward -- boem to move forward with a lease sale. can you walk us through how this lease sale not only enhances

american energy security, but also generates critical revenue for our coastal communities, specifically with public infrastructure in coastal protection in mississippi and across the gulf states? sec. burgum: the largest funder of coastal reservation is the u.s. -- restoration is the u.s. we're planning on having the first lease sale in december of 2025 get back on track for development in the gulf of america. mr. ezell: thank you. i yield back. mr. westerman: the chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island for five minutes. mr. magaziner: thank you to the chairman and thank you, mr. secretary. i wasn't planning on this but i heard your exchange about offshore wind. i believe we may be the only people in this room that come from that its that have it and have real experience with it. we know that when done properly, offshore wind can yield low costs for consumers, good american jobs, american-made energy that we don't import, and i wanted to correct the record

on a few things. you brought up the intermittency issue when you were having your exchange with her. do you know what the capacity factor is of the south fork wind farm that she responded to? sec. burgum: i'm not -- i know that in -- mr. magaziner: it's 56% which is the same as the average capacity factor for natural gas plants nationally. and in my state, rhode island, we have a development under way, let me just level said here, the national retail rate for electricity is about 17 cents a kilowatt hour. we have an offshore wind development in rhode island right now that is contracted to deliver at 9.8 cents per kilowatt hour. so i would just caution everybody -- sec. burgum: do you understand why they can deliver at 9.6? it's because of the subsidies. mr. magaziner: no, it's because rhode island is the saudi arabia of wind. what is right in north dakota or west virginia or anywhere else may not be the same as what is right in new york or rhode island. this is a big country that is

geologically diverse. and so i just want to make that point. because when i hear you say things like, we don't need anymore intermittent sources of energy, that may be true in north dakota where you're already at 40% renewables. but in a state like rhode island where we've been less than 10%, that is clearly not the case. so, look, i just want to make sure that we're operating off of a level set of facts here. and that when the administration is making decisions with regard to energy policy, the administration is taking into account that different factors may be different in different states. let me get back to my prepared questions. it has been said correctly, i think, that national parks were the best idea that we ever had. i agree. hundreds of millions of people visit national parks every year. so far on your watch, 2400 national park employees have been culled from the workforce. i heard you say -- sec. burgum: not culled. if there's 2400 people, they've

taken a free choice to take an early retirement package. mr. magaziner: this wags the accelerated retirement plan that elon musk, an allegedly drug addicted billionaire, came up with for the entire federal government. he clearly has no expertise in national park majority. but i'll just take a step back here. what i heard you say that i agree with is that we shouldn't be focus just on input, how much money we spend, how many people are employed, but on outputs. i'm a former state treasurer. i agree with that. so i want to ask about the outputs. how many parks have had to reduce their hours this year as a result of the decreased staffing? do you have a figure on that? sec. burgum: there's an order out right now that none of them can -- mr. magaziner: i'm asking about what's happened. do you have data? because we've heard a number of examples, is a garo national park had to cut visitor center hours. canceled tours. fossil beds posted that they were going to close mondays and

tuesdays. i understand that you don't want reduced hours, but you have been tracking the outcomes? can we get those -- that data? sec. burgum: we can and i think right now all of them are operating at their -- mr. magaziner: i'd ask to see the actual data and figures so we can judge. and same on, you know, number of hours to get into the parks. we've heard about big delays at yosemite and others. i understand what you're saying about outcomes. but show us the outcomes, please, i would ask. finally, the number one thing i hear from people is that the cost of living, including the cost of energy, is too high. in rhode island currently we get 15% of our energy from canada, more in the summer months. does a 10% tax on canadian energy make energy more affordable for consumers or less? the answer is more. clearly. sec. burgum: my understanding, i'm quiz cal because my understanding is there's no tariffs on canadian energy coming in. mr. magaziner: so the full 25% may not have been applied, but the baseline 10% is still in

effect. does cutting liheap as the president proposes in his budget, the low-income heat assistance program, that helps millions of people keep their heat, their homes heated in the winter, does cutting liheap make energy more affordable for consumers or less? sec. burgum: the biggest consumer of liheap is the northeastern part of our country. mr. magaziner: i'm aware. those are my constituents and they'll freeze to death without liheap. sec. burgum: the reason it's the biggest consumer is because of the blocking of natural gas pipelines. 81% of the people in maine heat their homes on heating oil. mr. magaziner: the taxing the energy we import will not help with that. if our common goal is to lower the cost of energy for consumers, we should not be blocking renewable energy development, we should not be cutting liheap and we should not be taking canadian energy imports. with that, i yield back. mr. westerman: the gentleman yields back. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from north carolina, mr. mcdowell, for five minutes. mr. mcdowell: thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. secretary, for being here. i'm not going to sit here and

say that i'm not going to ask you gotcha questions and then insist that i'm not asking you them when i am. and i'm not going to put a monopoly man behind me for theatrics. what i will do is talk to you about hunting and fishing. because that's what the people that i represent back home care about. but one of the things that concerns me the most is that the people that have been in your department for the last four years, they've been making rules and creating regulations with no care for the opinion of hunters and fishermen. are you committed to -- and the department of the interior, to making sure that the voices of sports men and women are included when these decisions are being made? sec. burgum: absolutely. mr. mcdowell: thank you, sir. many of the folks that i represent are concerned with

future federal rules that may effect land use, that could limit hunting. how was the department making sure that hunting stays a central part of public land use now and for the next generations? sec. burgum: our hunters are sportsmen, our anglers are among the most fervent -- both -- not just users but also financially supporting conservation groups. their voice matters. access matters. and our policies should expand access on public lands for hunting and fishing. mr. mcdowell: you spoke about the role that the national turkey federation and the rocky mountain elk federation, ducks unlimited and many other groups play in preserving the outdoors. can you describe specifically the work that the department is doing to partner with these groups that are so great for conservation?

sec. burgum: a number of those organizations and many more, delta water fowl, you mentioned ducks unlimited, fessents forever, all of these organizations are concerned about habitat and conservation and it's one way to make a federal dollar go further is to partnership with these private organizations who both know and care about that habitat. mr. mcdowell: speaking of delta waterfowl, i was on the board in north carolina. one of the things that they worked on was different things that -- different monitoring programs for waterfowl. they travel up and down the flyways. what -- outside of just banding, which is common, what are other innovative ways that the department supports to track and mondayer to the number of -- monitor the number of different species of waterfowl that making their way north and south? sec. burgum: there's a -- this is an important thing and partnerships going on with partners like delta, a lot of work goes on every year on the spring breeding surveys in the

flyway to make sure we have healthy populations. i think there's new advances in technology that are coming. but this is an important part of making sure that we've got the data to back up decisions. mr. mcdowell: gotcha. switching gears a little bit. there's one of the premier fishing tournaments in the world happening right now in north carolina. and it's a blue marlin tournament called the big rock. and i've heard a lot from boat captains, guides, folks that are sport fishers that they're having a massive problem off the coast of north carolina with sharks. there's been historic success in fishing fortunea off the coast -- for tuna off the coast of carolina and they now have a significant issue with not being able to sit and fish fortunea because -- for tuna because theyle can't reel them in due to the sharks. would you be committed to working with the boat captains

in north carolina to make sure that they're able to continue to fish for tuna? sec. burgum: yes. mr. mcdowell: great. i've got one last question for you. and it's on energy. we've heard a lot and i just want to ask about how the price of energy goes up and down, would overburdensome regulation that appeases a specific group of people that may or may not be based in reality, would that make the price of energy go up or down? sec. burgum: burdensome regulations prices go up. but broken markets where highly subsidized industries can price lower than their actual system costs, you know, artificially lowers the price. but it doesn't lower the cost on consumers. because taxpayers are still paying for that -- for the high cost of those, quote, renewable forms of electricity. because if they're intermittent, meaning they don't run when the wind blows, they don't run when

the sunshines, then we need the entire other system which we've been trying to shut down to actually power the country. so we end up with a duplicative system. mr. mcdowell: imagine that. mr. chairman, i yield back. mr. westerman: the gentleman yields back. mr. huffman: mr. chairman, request unanimous consent to enter a few pages from the interior department's budget in brief. this is from president trump's skinny budget. proposed great to hear the stated commitment to hunters and angles but this budget document tells a very different story. proposes $276 million slash from lwcf, repurposed to deferred maintenance. and then taking the north american wetlands conservation act budget down from $49 million to zero. request unanimous consent. mr. westerman: without objection. i ask unanimous consent to submit into the record an article from "forbes." there seems to be some debate

about the cost of renewable energy and the subsidies that go along with that. i think this article helps explain that. the consumer sees their electric bill and it's not broken down by the source of fuel to put those electrons into their home or their bills. but this study, which includes data from the energy information administration, shows that -- and this is pre-i.r.a. between 2010 and 2016, subsidies for solar was between 10 cents and 8 cents for kilowatt hour and wind, 1.3 and 5.7 cents per kilowatt hour. subsidies for coal, natural gas and nuclear are all between 0.05 cents and 0.2 cents per kilowatt hour. and this was just subsidies from

the american recovery and reinvestment act. the author goes on to say here that solar gets most -- the most state-funded subsidies. some which greatly exceed the federal subsidies. in my own state of washington, where electricity prices are eight cents per kilowatt hour, the state pays me 54 cents for every kilowatt hour generated by my rooftop solar ray. whether i use it or not. this has made my total electricity costs -7 cents per kilowatt hour over the past two years. and will be for the foreseeable future. i think that gives some insight on what these renewable subsidies do for the real cost of electricity, that gets blended in with all the electricity that gets put on the grid. without objection. so ordered. now i recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. soto, for five minutes. mr. soto: thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. secretary, for being here. i want to start out with talking

about the everglades. it's been a bipartisan project for many years. we saw both in president biden's budget, $444 million no. you in trump's budget, $446 million. so we're grateful for that request. i wanted to also point out the northern everglades, which flows through my area, as well as representative franklin, bipartisan areas of florida where the kissimmee chain of lakes, can i similary river -- kissimmee river form everglades. there are projects that have been approved and are starting to move through that help water supply, ag, recreation and so i'm hoping we can continue to get your support to both help the northern and southern everglades in florida which is such an important part of our state. sec. burgum: you have my commitment. i had an opportunity to keynote at the everglades trust dinner the other night and of course they were celebrating the 446 million dollars in president

trump's budget to help complete important water projects for the everglades and of course with four national parks in southern florida, this is a key part -- key partners in helping restore that ecosystem. mr. soto: another bipartisan tradition is a ban on oil drilling in florida's gulf coast. we've seen major bipartisan support in bills. we've also seen both biden and trump historically protect the florida gulf coast. military training, tourism, recreation, wildlife. should that continue to be the policy, can we count on your support to implement it, to protect the gulf coast? sec. burgum: yes. and we can protect the gulf coast but i also want to be transparent that i think on earlier decisions by the biden administration, that line was set. 110 miles away from the gulf coast of florida. and so i think that there's a way to protect the gulf coast completely, but i think that

there's some review of where the line was drawn because it's excluding, you know, potential opportunity for multiple use beyond that. as you noted, that takes discussion with the military and others. but i just wanted to be clear that i wasn't making promises that were not in line with where the administration may be considering opportunities. mr. soto: i understand. i'm glad you mentioned the military. that's one of the big parts of it. along with protecting our wildlife and then tourism. i hear folks on this committee constantly talk about after hours that they're going to florida, that they're enjoying the beaches there. we want to protect them for all americans. i also want to talk about rare earth minerals. you've started your career in technology. we see both in artificial intelligence and chips and electric vehicles that rare earth minerals are very important. this last year, 20% of new cars were either hybrids or electric vehicles and florida surprisingly for a lot of people has the second most e.v.'s, but also foray, data -- for a.i.,

data storage, batteries and there's only one large scale rare earth mining project, mountain pass mine in california. mr. secretary, what are you able to do to help domestically source more rare earth minerals and secure these supply chains for the future? sec. burgum: what you brought up is a critical -- is critical to our country. i think we're going to see in the days, weeks and months ahead that this is going to take a national priority because with china sort of flexing its muscle around the strangle hold it had on the rest of the world around rare earth mineral, it's a wakeup call to the rest of the allied nations that we have to develop secure supply chains and mountain pass is the only one that's operating right now and it's not just mining, but it's also the refining that we need to do in this country. so this is going to become an important effort of this administration to make sure that we protect our military, protect

our industry and protect our peace and security with our allies, by making sure that we're not all dependent on an adversary. mr. soto: what areas are you looking at? any particular projects you're excited about that might be able to expand our rare earth mineral capacity? sec. burgum: we have lots. rare earth minerals aren't rare in the sense that they're not available in the u.s. what became rare was mining and even more rare was the refining of those materials. even when we've got repsyched things that are going on like an m.r.i. or other things, we're sending our repsyched batteries to china doing the recycling. we're giving up what could be a source of supply for us. mr. soto: we'll talk with the e.p.a. about that. i'm also on that committee. is there anyplaces you think have a lot of potential or areas that you're looking at? sec. burgum: anyplace that we find other minerals, gold, uranium, graphite, many of these other base minerals that are not rare in conjunction with many of

those, those represent great potential. but we have a lot of -- as i mentioned earlier, there's a lot of rare earth minerals that exist in coal. gallium, germanium exist in high quantities. we just have to have the will and policy to get the mining and the processing done here versus having other countries do that. mr. soto: thanks. i yield back. mr. westerman: the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from alaska, mr. begich, for five minutes. mr. begich: i'm looking forward to this last conversation. can i request a three-minute recess right now? and then i'll come back ready to go and dive in? mr. westerman: i understand. we're in recess for approximately five minutes.

announcer: the house will be back at 1:30 p.m. eastern for debate on legislation to cut $9.4 billion in foreign aid and public broadcasting funding. a final voten the rescissions package along with final votes on repealing a d.c. sanctuary city law and aeasure to permanently classify fentanyl with the highest penalesnd controls are also anned this afternoon. looking ahead to tomorrow, the chamber will not be in seson, to allow members to attend the funeral for former new yor congressman charlie range until harlem -- rangel in harlem. watch live coverage of the house